From Debt to Harvest: Rethinking Property and Side Income

We explore how to transform your yard from a money drain into an income-generating asset through innovative gardening approaches and direct sales to restaurant chefs.

• Modern properties now cost money rather than generate income, from expensive driveways to high-maintenance lawns
• Microgreens business proved unprofitable at farmers markets due to hidden labor costs and time commitment 
• "Cut-and-come-again" garden model allows chefs to harvest their own produce, paying by weight with an honor system
• Raised bed hugelkultur gardening offers an ergonomic solution for growing that repurposes yard waste
• Suburban self-sufficiency isn't realistic, but even small-scale food production can offset rising grocery costs
• Victory gardens provide resilience against supply chain disruptions while keeping you close to home and family

Check out the Michigan Renaissance Festival this summer!

Chapters

• 0:25 Tuesday at the Trading Post
• 0:58 Michigan Renaissance Festival Spotlight
• 4:44 Side Hustles in Tough Times
• 7:44 Houses as Debt vs Investment
• 12:31 From Microgreens to Market
• 22:03 Gardening for Profit and Survival
• 28:20 Cut-and-Come-Again Garden Model

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Holy smokes, it is Tuesday already. Welcome back to the Trading Post. I am Trader Stu. I thought it was Monday today. I had to go to the funeral yesterday, so I'm all thrown off and I thought today was Monday. So I apologize for the late upload. If you didn't listen to it on the way to work, I'm sorry. So here we are. I'll get this uploaded as soon as I can, of course, minimal editing, as I always. Sorry. So here we are. I'll get this uploaded as soon as I can, of course, minimal editing, as I always do. That's one of the actually turn offs I found with YouTube. With me lately is the over editing. So anyway, this episode is sponsored by the Michigan Renaissance Festival and I cannot wait until they give me that schedule of what the new things are coming up this year.

Speaker 1: 0:47

Last year I went did you ever go to Chocolate Week? Have you ever gone to Chocolate or Chocolate Weekend? I forget what they call it, Cocoa Weekend. Anyway, all the vendors there, if you go to the back of the park, they're all set up with, of course, desserts and chocolates and it's like food trucks, but you know, chocolate based. So it's like, uh, food trucks, but you know chocolate based. So it's kind of like willie wonka went to the michigan renaissance festival and opened up shop. You know you get to try all the different flavors and you know sights and smells and it smells awesome. Of course you go back there, even though it's outside, it just smells like a chocolate factory. So, yeah, I hope they do that again this year. I'm looking forward to it. And, of course, you know you got to get your turkey leg wire there and a beer.

Speaker 1: 1:30

But, yeah, the Cocoa Festival or Chocolate Weekends that was I think it was Sweet Dreams or Sweet Weekends, I don't remember, but it was fun and delicious all at the same time. And now that we're kind of cleared from the you know 2020 issues that they were issuing rain checks out for, and it was crazy when they reopened it shouldn't be nearly as busy as it was, for when I came, the last time I was there was when they allowed everyone from COVID the last two years to come in plus that year. So it was crazy and I remember I think I told you the story last week I got to mess with all the cars as I walked in and had just a ton of fun doing that and my best Captain Jack Sparrow attire and attitude and charisma that I could bring forth to the Michigan Renaissance Festival. But I've been there before that and it was always. It wasn't that crazy, like I mean, I had a park down the road on a dirt road, and now they're I think they expanded their parking lots. So if you're, you know, avoiding going cause maybe you had that experience go again and I'll be there and they're going to actually invite me to the heat, um, the vip, like uh, media, uh night before they open. So I'll especially be able to get front row parking. But I, I like the parking lot situation. I don't know. To me it's a part of the adventure, part of the fun and, uh, like I said, the walk-in, I, if you go on the left side of the park, there is the parking lot, there's a cool little trail, there's a little bridge, you go through the woods. Now I did it. They do a really good job there and making kind of everything part like of the adventure. So definitely show up, check it out if you haven't. Yeah, already, it's fun for all ages.

Speaker 1: 3:25

My stepson dressed up as Darth Vader one year. That was he's nine, so he was what? What were they? 2025? So he was five or six years old and he still talks about it. So we're going to go again this year, obviously again, and we just had a baby, so I probably wouldn't bring I I don't know. I've seen strollers there but to me, um, I just don't want to deal with that, uh with my kid, uh to the strollers, but I see them there and people on back with kids on backpacks, all that stuff because it's fun, and then it's later in the summer or in the fall, so it gets cooler. So the kids, you know, don't uh overheat I guess you could say so. Uh, but I'm excited for it this year. You check it out, all right.

Speaker 1: 4:08

So, real quick, I wanted to talk about everyone's talking about side jobs lately, because the, you know, job search is kind of tough. I know some people that are getting laid off. I myself was one of them, got laid off last year, six months after my son was born. But you know I got lucky, of course, with the VA, so they helped me out and if people are having issues, there are resources out there for veterans. I'm not sure what people are talking about, but they pulled through for me. I don't know, maybe I talked to the right people or I got a good place around here, but uh, anyway, they got me through some a really tough time and um, but yeah, anyway, uh, if they're you know people in the military, have them check out their local area resource center and get them through whatever's going on.

Speaker 1: 5:01

But everyone's talking about side jobs or side come money, and I wanted to talk real quick about gardening. So you know, with everything coming up, you know tariffs, talks and fruits and vegetables are getting more expensive and here's the thing with that. So we do a lot of frozen fruit in my family because my wife makes smoothies for the kids daily, like literally, I'm talking about daily. We just bought like a $600 blender because she smoked two of them. My parents gave us one from, I think, their wedding. It was like a 1970s or 80s models and she used it for a couple months and then smoked it Like it got acrid smelling, you know. The motor burned out and then before that went through another one. Anyway, I digress. So what I'm getting at is that everything's more expensive and we built the garden, tried it. Then my son was born.

Speaker 1: 5:59

I let it, you know. Let it go back to nature, because you know priorities. I don't know people do it. I don't know how people do it. I don't know how people do it, man, with the kids and the garden, and you got maybe a dog or two and then you got the house and then a job or two and it's a lot, man, right. So you're constantly going at it. And my whole idea behind this to do a side hustle with gardening would be to not take me away or my wife away from the home and have daycare, raise the kids, right. So, and I'm not saying like you're making a lot of money here, I'm just saying you know a little bit of your money here and there. You know, I don't think it's like something that you're going to quit a job over and they're going to, you know, full-time it, but you might as well make.

Speaker 1: 6:43

My thing is, if you're going to do something, why not a little bit of side income, money from it, not saying it's going to you know make or break or now you're going to get ahead. It's not about that with me. It's about just kind of like the hobby paying for itself. I saw a really cool YouTube video. God, it must have been a year or two ago and I can't find it again I think the algorithm or YouTube or like they quote unquote. They took it down because it made a lot of sense and I'll quickly kind of go over it. And that's how property used to be a source of income for people and now property is a source of debt for people.

Speaker 1: 7:27

Now I'm not talking about if you're flipping real estate or you know, you're buying and selling houses and maybe not even within a year. I'm just saying buy a house, sell it three or five years later and hopefully you break even by the time you put all the upgrades in it and you kind of live rent free. And that's the other thing too. You know people are like, oh, you should put a new kitchen in. You get money back when you sell the house. No, you won't. You'll get maybe 50% of the value, I think, let's say, for bathrooms and and uh and kitchens. Uh, when you upgrade you might get half of that back, you know. So I don't think.

Speaker 1: 8:01

I think that houses are for me. I've had bad experiences. I'm on my fourth house and I've lost money on two of them, made money on one and I'm in one now. So I'm not really. I don't have a good warm and fuzzy for houses and real estate. I say they're a debt. I think they're a, not a novelty. What do you call it? Like a nice to have? Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1: 8:30

My apartment that I was in before was crazy expensive and it was unnecessary. I think it was like $1,750 a month and it didn't pay for any of the water, gas, heat, none of that Right. So it was like two grand a month to live in this apartment. And then, of course, my mortgage is substantially cheaper than that. But here's the other problem. Now you're doing upgrades. I had to put a new roof on it, new gutters. You know the driveway. Luckily I can. My wife and I broke up the concrete. I want to patch and pour our own concrete. You got to be able to do things yourself in these houses, otherwise they're going to eat you literally out of house and home. So that's to.

Speaker 1: 9:12

My point is that I think they're a debt until, hopefully, one day you break even and able to sell it and get your money back on whatever you put into it, because otherwise, if you're in an apartment, you're kind of throwing away. Let's just say two grand a month. You never get that back. That's $24,000 a year. That's a lot of money that you'll never get back. So you know, in a house, to lose $24,000, I mean you have to be basically a short sale or total market collapse, like in 2008. Which, hey, guess what? I was part of that crew too. I had a short sale in my house. I bought it, I think, in 2006.

Speaker 1: 9:44

In Jersey, in the military, I figured I wasn't going to be there that long. I would just be in and out within two or three years. And guess what? Two years later I don't think a year and a half later uh, oh, wait, crisis or oh, seven, whatever it was everything fell apart, right, so, um, so, yeah, anyway, this guy was talking about.

Speaker 1: 10:02

You know, nowadays we have concrete or blacktop driveways this is the back to the YouTube video, by the way um, that are expensive and before they were just dirt or gravel or just grass and they didn't cost you any money, they were just kind of there. Now my driveway costs you money, right, the tree roots are lifting the some of the slabs and it's coming on. Even I had to break up a slab because it was very dangerous trip hazard. I had to crack it out before trick-or-treating last year because before that a kid or two tripped on the unevenness of it. So I took care of that and it cost me concrete and a sledgehammer. But you know, and then what else was he talking about? Oh, grass Grass is a huge deficit.

Speaker 1: 10:49

I mean, you know, I don't want to say huge, I guess it could be. It could be Like I live in a neighborhood where a lot of neighbors take care of their lawns and they have a lot of yard maintenance crews come out. They all pay for the yard crew and I got a quote and I think it was 45 bucks a week for them to, you know, be under contract for the summer and then, and that paid for two edgings a year and a weekly mowing. And then you have to pay. A lot of people fertilize and then they put herbicides down and pesticides, and you know, I mean you're in the lawnmower and you got gas, but before you know your yard was your garden or part of the field. You just kind of like surrounded yourself.

Speaker 1: 11:27

I grew up in the middle of cornfields up in Frankamuth. You know I had a cornfield one year and then a soybean one year and then a sugar beet one year. You know they rotate the crops, right. So everything every three years was corn or something like that. But I'm not saying that I was the farmer, but I'm just saying our yard was surrounded by this.

Speaker 1: 11:45

You know, we could have been back in the day farmers, right? So then that's how you would have lived. Now we had a yard and property. My stepdad had a mower and my dad has a mower. You know, back then too, whatever like rider. But you know, again now, riding lawnmowers are thousands of dollars, are paying for the maintenance, oil and gas.

Speaker 1: 12:02

But again I gotta, I gotta digress on all of that because we could just go you you know, crazy with grass. And then what else was it? Oh, the garage parks our car. Now we put we're so bougie that our cars have a home, a shelter, which is, if you think about it, I mean just think about it, that's crazy, I mean it is. So I get it like if it's raining or snowing.

Speaker 1: 12:29

But then my thing with that always was is like, what are you going to do once you get to wherever you're going, unless, like I, work in a building that has a parking garage and, to be fair, not many people use it, because I think it's $50 or $100 a month to pay the landlord to be able to park your car underground. So no one does it. Because I don't know. We all live in Michigan, man, we're used to it. Oh what? So it snowed? You got to strip your windows off. Oh poo-hoo. But again, what are you going to do when you go to the grocery store? It's snowing? You come out, you got to wipe your windows down anyways. You know what I'm saying. So a lot of things that just don't make any sense with how costs and money and what we spend our money on, to me anyway.

Speaker 1: 13:14

And then he went on to say something else about something that costs us money but or used to make us money, but now it costs us money and the whole yard thing. And I was just like into it because I absolutely loathe yard work. I hate it, dude, and it's so. You know it takes time away from the kids, or you know the family time. Or you got to stay home because you got to mow the takes time away from the kids, or you know the family time. You've got to stay home because you've got to mow the lawn while the kids go to soccer practice. I don't know. And I had to do that one week and I was just like this is stupid, so I'm not paying nobody to do it. So you know, and we were getting, we had a two-bedroom apartment and by the time, you know, my other son came around it would have been way too small for us, so we had to get something different.

Speaker 1: 13:52

But anyway, then you know, one day the kids will play outside, and whatever you think right. I mean, I'm going to buy a play structure, but maybe they will, maybe they won't play on it, I don't know. The thing is, we live in an area that has tons of city paid for tax, dollar, paid for parks that are awesome, and there's other kids there to play with. So I don't know, maybe they'll play in the back, or maybe kids will come by and play with the kids and we'll have the cool house where the kids won't be gone. The kids will be over at our house and you keep an eye on them. And that brings me to the other point of my idea for generating a little side.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Come while you're growing your own food. You know you're out in the backyard anyway. The kids want to be outside and you're like so I don't know, what do you do? Sit in a chair and scroll through tiktok or whatever. You know what I'm saying like it's like no, be productive, or do something. So I'm like, oh okay, well, I have a garden and while the kids are outside, I'll kind of watch them in the corner of my eye while I'm out there and they're doing their thing and I'm doing mine, and maybe they help, maybe they won't. And then that way we're growing our own food and selling the excess. And then you also got to check with your local ordinance.

Speaker 1: 15:05

So we used to grow microgreens in the basement and we sold them at Farmer's Market. To grow microgreens in the basement and we sold them at farmer's market and markets I we were in two or three of them and you know you dedicate a saturday and or a sunday to doing this, and at the time, you know my wife really enjoyed it. She met a friend actually they still talk and they still hang out from the farmer's market who was also, uh, coincidentally, the other, like the other micro greens grower at the same market. So you know they should have been competitors and they called each other's frenemies. But you know, since we pulled out of it and we're done with it, they still talk. And she did other things too. She has honey and eggs and whatever.

Speaker 1: 15:46

But microgreens was a lot of work so I put thousands of dollars into this hobby, right? So every morning you gotta water the microgreens. Every evening you gotta water the microgreens, and that takes about a half hour probably total, maybe right. Each time you're like, oh, that's not so bad, a half hour in the morning, half hour in the afternoon, yeah, but that adds up. And now the night before you go to market you got to cut them, put them in the containers, label them. You know you got to put your stickers on there to be legal in Michigan. You know it's really on the up and up and it's kind of like cottage food law. But a little bit I think it's the same thing. Actually I can't remember. It's been so long since we did this. I think it's the same thing. Actually I can't remember it's been so long since we did this.

Speaker 1: 16:31

But what we found out was, by the time you add up the hour a day, that's five hours a week, plus another like hour or two the night before, so that's seven hours. And then you got six. No, you got eight hours in the market because I started I had to be there at seven to set up, and then it was eight to two, shut down by three. So you're there from seven to three, man, you know. So you gotta factor all that hours in and then by the time you make your money, you're negative. You're just negative, dude you're. I don't know how people do it.

Speaker 1: 17:05

So what we figured out was is you gotta sell microgreens by the flats to like chefs at restaurants. That's the only way, with no cutting, you just grow it, you know, deliver it to like chefs at restaurants. That's the only way, with no cutting, you just grow it, you know, deliver it, get your money and go. That's the only way, because you're not spending hours in a market and you're not cutting them and weighing them or whatever you were doing. So that's how you gotta make money in microgreens. I don't know all these people on youtube talk about making 10 grand a month doing microgreens. Man, that's a lot and just a ton of work. Of course you got to have employees at that point in time, I guess. But, man, I tell you.

Speaker 1: 17:38

So she was going to grow what. Was it Something else? Oh, baked bread, and then put up like a farmer's stand in her front yard. Right Now, we're not in an HOA, we're in a township, but you can't just do that. So we found out that even if it's on wheels, it can't be out in the front yard, you can't sell stuff out of your yard or something like that. But the loophole was, they told us, but you can do it off of your porch. So we have the covered porch. So if we set up like a shelf shelving system or whatever shelves out there, kind of like the mobile or like a garden cart, what do you call them? A roadside veggie stand, but it's not roadside, it's in their porch. So you're not getting people that are just going to be able to drive by and see it and stop. You got to know about it.

Speaker 1: 18:36

So then I just happened to be at the Oakland Thrive and a guy just I don't know how we got talking about this, but he said somebody up in Flint or Grand Blanc area does a cut and come again concept with her garden, where she talks to I don't know how many chefs a couple handful, whatever, doesn't matter and she charges by the pound and the chefs come out, they cut the lettuce, she teaches them how to do it the first time and that way they don't kill the plant, I guess, and then they cut what they want. She has a scale, they weigh it and then she has like a box what do you call it? An honor box, or you know where. You just put cash in it and yeah, that's how she does it. So she don't cut harvest stock, you know, it's all fresh. So everyone wins. She wins by saving just a ton of time.

Speaker 1: 19:39

She's not going to farmer's markets, she's not spending. You know what is it? 16 hours a weekend, which you're done, you're not doing it. And then you can't not go. What happens? If you want to go camping, or you know you want to go up north, or the family wants to come over and visit, you're gone from the morning until the afternoon. You've been out in the sun all day. You're exhausted. When you get home You've got to unpack and whatever. And then what? You're going to visit with family or whatever and friends, you're done. You're smoked, you're done. You don't want to do nothing, right? So no more markets for her.

Speaker 1: 20:04

The chef, or chefs, are happy because they get the absolute freshest produce that you money can buy, literally because they're going out there and cutting it themselves and they're not paying for produce that's garbage, because a lot of these top-tier chefs I live in Metro Detroit. We have some nice restaurants around here, right, and they use only like the best, highest quality ingredients, of course, and you know how. When you buy strawberries, the bottom ones are mushy. Or you know, you get lettuce and you got brown spots or nibbles here and there. They are only cutting what they want. So they're paying for all of its good. They're not getting a crate.

Speaker 1: 20:48

I used to work, I was a pantry chef, I used to be this guy. So our family owner restaurant in uh, frankamuth called uh Harry's Bistro, and before that the Blue Dolphin, and I was the salads and uh, the dessert guy, and so I went through the box of these. Uh, it was the first time I ever had, like you know, those flowery flower salads. It's like a spring mix, I think they call it, and it looks like you're eating roses. You're eating like really fancy, like bib lettuce or whatever and this other kind of not iceberg, you know what I mean. And then you got like there's purples and reds and orange and all kinds of cool different colors and this looks like you're eating a bouquet and uh, and orange and all kinds of cool different colors and it looks like you're eating a bouquet and you think, oh, these guys, these restaurants are getting top-tier lettuce. They must all be good and delicious. No, it's not.

Speaker 1: 21:41

I had to go through that Every box, every crate. It came in like a like, you know, an orange box, whatever you know, like the orange for oranges, and a rectangle and with wrap, a wrap around it, like plastic wrap, you know, and uh, like a garbage bag, I guess you could say. And you'd open this thing up. And sometimes the lettuce was all bad, it was all slimy or black or moldy or mildewy. You threw the whole thing away, man, you're not gonna. Some of it was unsaligable and now some of it the top was was fine until you got to the bottom. But you know you had to go through and hand sort it and then rinse it and all that stuff. I mean, don't get me wrong, you're going to rinse the lettuce anyways, but the fact of the matter is you're not. There was no time saving. You know I had to go through everything anyway manually and anyway manually and make sure only the best got to the plate. So you know it's a.

Speaker 1: 22:36

All I'm saying is I love the idea. I guess is what I'm going for here, because, um, the all here, but here's the problem. So what do you? So for me I got, I'm pretty jacked up like I need, I need to find a way to that's easy on the rig, right. So my shoulder, back, neck, feet, knees, right, like so I'm in my mid forties and been through the rigors of the military and have you know the label to show for it.

Speaker 1: 23:08

And so the whole idea was, when we put this garden in two years ago, we'd get a raised bed with a bunch of cinder blocks. So every day on the way home from work, I'd stop by Lowe's and I'd pick up I think it was like four or six cinder blocks, cause that's all my Jeep could hold and that's all I could like really. That's all I really wanted to deal with. So I would just slowly build the wall up and I think it's three or four center blocks high. So, and it did. Well, it's a hugelkultur style raised bed, right. So it's not like, uh, was it three foot? I think it is tall, with just center blocks, and it's not just full of dirt Like that'd be. Oh, my God, it'd be so much dirt.

Speaker 1: 23:49

So I threw a bunch of old logs in there that were, you know, rotten. People branches on the side of the road, you know whatever right, I just filled this thing. Oh, leaves, tons of leaves. That was so fun and cool and easy, remember, you know, I don't know about you guys, but when I get leaves in my yard, it's leaves in my yard, dude, it's. I'm I mean I'm mulching it, I am putting it in the bins and there's multiple weeks with multiple, you know, 10 or 12 bins per week going out to the road. It's total waste. I'm like man, what a waste. I wish we could use this. I really wish I could compress that and turn it into logs or something like that.

Speaker 1: 24:28

You know, again, here we are more work, I know more labor, but uh, anyway, what I was going for here was I just put it in this pit with all the logs on it and I just layered this thing full of leaves and wood and uh like. So the soil is super awesome in this raised hugelkultur bed. I even did a youtube video on it and I since then took it all down because I was just like, not, it got away from. It got to be a lot more work than I thought. I thought that with a raised bed there wouldn't be so many of the issues that you get when you're in the ground. Nope, woodchucks find it, the birds find it, the weeds find it, the grass finds it. It's still a pain, it's still a lot of work and I don't really enjoy it. I don't like, uh, I really don't like yard work.

Speaker 1: 25:13

But here I am trying to garden, I guess and that's only because you know it's kind of like I don't want to say self-sufficiency, I hate that word People have no idea what it takes when they can't order stuff anymore to be self-sufficient, right. So we were raising rabbits and you know I was going through pounds of feed, like all these bags. And when I remember when the train, the railroad, went on strike, well, I had to source different food because the rabbit food that we were getting from wherever California, west Coast or whatever was no longer available to come out here to Michigan because they went on strike to shut down. So I had to get something else, which whatever. But all I'm saying was minor, slight little hiccup, but big deal, because rabbits, you know they eat right. So you can't just like feed them grass from the yard, I guess, is what I'm trying to say so. Self-sufficiency, no, but can it help maybe alleviate some of the budget? I guess because and or the food and transportation system, right, I think we're going to get back to this again.

Speaker 1: 26:20

I call it my victory garden in the backyard because I was trying to mimic what they were doing back in the day on a smaller scale, to try and see if we could do it first. And we did grow corn and beans and pumpkins, but the thing woodchuck's got the pumpkins you know what I mean. So and the birds, I got to paint these rocks red, I guess, and make them look like strawberries. So anyway, all I'm saying is that you know, we're going to try something like that with the gardening, again on the small scale and easy on the rig. So I'm going to bend over. That's why I got the raised bed is what I was getting at with that one to make it easier on all the you know joints and things of that nature. You can just stand up and just walk around and do it. And then the other thing I wanted to do was the aquaculture. You know, it's like hydroponics, but with fish, and then that opens up a whole different can of worms too. But now you got all these raised beds that you just got to fill the water and not hibiculture or dirt, because it's just water, so you got that aspect of it.

Speaker 1: 27:19

If you're growing lettuce, which is the best way to turn a profit from what I've read and found out and what chefs most desire, because lettuce is what goes bad the quickest, so that's what you're going to get, not corn or beans, right? So the chefs want microgreens, lettuce and things like that. So, trying to turn a profit If anybody's ever done this, by the way, I'd like to know, because it seems like I know you're not going to make I think I've read you can make maybe $10,000 a year, you know in Michigan, and hey, $10,000 is that might pay for your whole aquaculture setup. The first year maybe I don't really see myself making $10,000, but that's a pretty big setup, I think, and it wouldn't be this year, that's for sure, because the kids well, my littlest one can't really play outside unmonitored yet. So maybe next year maybe I'll start setting up for it.

Speaker 1: 28:13

So what I was getting at with this the whole thing was people were asking me about trading and bartering, and this is if things are getting tough. They say that during the Great Depression the farmers didn't really feel it that bad. It was all the city folks that felt the Great Depression right, because they were the ones with these jobs that were kind of given to them. But when you're a farmer, you know they still ate. They ate their, the pigs and the cows, and you know they had the veggies. So not saying I'm city boy and not saying the country, I'm suburbs. So I'm not an urban prepper, if you want to call it that, I'm suburban, which is pretty decent. I've got a third of an acre.

Speaker 1: 28:53

So if I could just get my money back on the investment and maybe the power, that's the other thing. If the grid goes down, what do you do with the aquaculture set up? It just seems like a lot of work. It's very overwhelming. And I just thought about this because I was talking to a guy at church the other day. They have a garden there, community garden, and they need volunteers for it and I'm like man, I can't even get mine going, you know, let alone you know that. And then we just struck up conversation and I was like man, it'd be so cool to earn an income. And I talked to the guy about the cut and come again. I'm like, oh, we could do that. So you know, I'm going to stop it right there as I'm kind of going down rabbit holes, but that's it Again. Check out the Michigan Renaissance Festival this summer. Slash fall and I will see you all on the next one, next Trade Tuesday. Take care, be good or be good at it.